The Heavenlies

Message first given on 16 March 2003 in Mahomet, Illinois
Transcribed and edited March 2004

[For a printable version click here.]

I want to talk about heaven today.  I should maybe begin by asking you, “Where is heaven?”  Yes, heaven is where God dwells.  And where does God dwell?  He dwells within us.  So, there is heaven in your heart then, right?  But, is there any other place where God dwells?  There might be another place that God dwells too.  You know that God is not limited to just one place, is He?  The Scriptures speak of a place where there is the throne of God and Jesus sits at the right hand of God.[1]  When I was younger I had a hard time with this certain verse in Ephesians that says that we are seated together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.[2]  

“But God, who is rich in mercy … hath quickened us together with Christ…And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

At that time in my life, of course, my thinking was very earthy; my thinking was very carnal.  You know, the words “earthy” and “carnal” are kind of synonymous, aren’t they?  Earthy is carnal.  Carnal doesn’t necessarily mean it is wicked.  I remember hearing people say that someone had “carnal” thinking.  And I used to think that because I have carnal thinking that this is saying that I am wicked.  But what it means is that I have “natural” thinking.  Now, what God expects us to do, is that we would rise up out of the carnal place and to come into a “heavenly” place.  And this is what gave me such a hard time in my thinking.  I said, “God!  I just don’t get it?  I can either be here on earth or I can be in heaven, but I cannot be in two places at once.”  This is carnal thinking, of course. 

I said, “God, I know that my feet are on this thing called earth, and yet You are trying to tell me in the Word that I am to come to sit with You in heavenly places.  You tell me that I am seated in heavenly places.  I don’t get it!  My feet are on earth!  Where do You want me to be?  Do you want me to be on earth, or do you want me to be in heavenly places?”  Now, I was of the opinion at that point of time in my life that I could not have my feet planted on earth and still be in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Amen? 

Some of you are probably aware of the verse from Colossians 3:1 that I shared last December with you in Florida.  It says,

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.” 

Now the word “seek” is here in this verse, and so, in other words, God is saying here to me that there is something that I can do about this.  I do not have to just sit back and accept my fate, that my feet are planted here and therefore there is nothing more that I can do about it.  God is saying that there is a heavenly realm in me that permits me to seek something higher.  If there is something in me of heaven, then there is something in my soul that permits me to “seek.”  I am not saying that this realm of heaven that is in me is the highest realm of heaven that there is.  I am just saying that He put something in me that permits me to seek something higher. 

Now, brethren, we have a choice.  We can make up our mind that we are just going to wallow about down here where pigs wallow in the earthy mire and clay, or we can rise up and seek something that God has provided for us that is higher.  The next verse says,

“Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”

It says, “Set your affection….”  That means that there is something else in me and that I can do something about it.  It does not change the fact that my feet are still down here on earth, but there is the ability within me to set my affection.  The condition that he gives at the very beginning of this in Verse 1 is,

“If ye then be risen with Christ….” 

Now if you do not consider yourself “risen with Christ,” then there might be a problem here.  I am getting down to the point now of some of the things that the Lord spoke to me.  All right?  And we come to Verses 2 and 3,

“Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.  For ye are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.” 

“For ye are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Let me share with you my personal encounter with this word.  Now, some of you didn’t hear me last December in Florida when I testified as to some of the things I experienced and heard of the Lord in October of last year (2002) when I had the heart attack and then the heart bypass operation.  It began when I found myself on my hands and knees in a junkyard one day.  I had gone there to try and find a part for my car.  I didn’t know how I got down there on my hands and knees, but I soon realized that that was where I was, and I also began to realize that I was in a lot of trouble.  To make a long story short, I eventually managed to drive myself home.  I came into the house and I told Janet that I was in big trouble, but that I didn’t know what kind of big trouble I was in.  I went down and layed on the floor for a little while, and tried to figure it out.  I suspected that it was a heart attack and so I asked her to check my fingernails.  “Are they blue or are they pink?  Look at my lips, are they blue or are they pink?”  She declared to me that they were pink, which kind of baffled me.  “Now, I have to go through all this diagnosis again.  My arm doesn’t hurt—I don’t know what is going on.”  Finally I realized I was in deeper trouble than I was going to be able to figure out about myself, and so I instructed her that we needed to get into the car and that she needed to drive me to the hospital. 

So she got me in the car and is driving me down to the hospital; and I cried out to the Lord, and I said, “Lord, I am in trouble.  I need a word from you.”  Furthermore, I said, “Lord, I do not want to waste this time of crisis and not hear your voice.”  You know, brethren, I believe that we can ask the Lord for a thing like that.  When we are in crisis, we cry out and we say, “I need to hear the word of the Lord!”  You know, I believe that if I had not asked that, I would not have heard anything.  But I said, “Lord, I need to hear.  I need a word from you.  I need to know where this is going.”  And to my shock and surprise, I heard the voice of the spirit.  I do not say that I heard Jesus.  I heard the voice of the spirit.  Because these words just came into me, “For you are dead.”  And I said, “oh my!  Janet, I am hearing this word.” 

So she is driving me hastily to the hospital.  She is in a panic.  I think that the car is in third gear and going about sixty-five miles an hour!  I can hear the screaming of the engine; and between hearing the word of the Lord, I’m saying, “Janet!  Shift!  Shift!  It is time to shift!” And she, of course, was not thinking of carnal things such as shifting.  She was thinking of life or death; and I am sure her heart was crying out to the Lord.  And she was saying, “Lord, I cannot lose this man!  This is not the way it is supposed to be!”  And so, I spoke to her and I said, “Janet, I hear the Lord saying, ‘For you are dead.’  Could this be the word of the Lord?” 

You know, sometimes you know that you have heard something that went absolutely contrary to your flesh.  Let me assure you, brethren, that when I asked the Lord to give me a word, my flesh did not want to hear anything like that.  My flesh, you know, wanted to hear, “Yea, I am the God that healeth thee.  Yea, rise up my son and be strong.”  I wanted to hear something like that.  I wasn’t hearing it. 

Now I am still alive in my natural man, and in all the time since that day last October, I have continued to contemplate, “What did He mean by this?”  On one level, I thought I had it figured out.  And yet, on another level, another day comes and I am thinking, “I wonder if this is where God wanted me to consider myself dead?”  And so another aspect of flesh is manifest.  And I am saying again, “What am I supposed to do here, Lord?”

Now, I am saying all this because our impression is that we have to die to go to heaven.  Isn’t that what you have been taught from the time you were a child?  That when you die, you go to heaven?  Is there anything wrong with that?  Is that not true?  That is true.  When Janet passed on to be with the Lord just earlier this year, she died.  She went to heaven.  Janet died; she went to heaven.  But she went to a realm of heaven that is not accessible to me.  I cannot communicate with saints in that realm.  However, I can participate in a realm of heaven without literally dying.

Maybe this would be the place to mention that in the Bible the word “heaven” refers mostly to a spiritual place.  Yet, it never ceases to amaze me, the carnal understanding about it that many Christians hold.  I remember hearing a group of believers discussing the brand of expensive furniture that they plan to have in their “mansion” in “heaven,” and instead of heaven it sounded more and more like “earth.”  Some years ago I did some teaching on the spiritual aspect of our heavenly reward, saying that the street of gold is not going to be made of the same natural material that your wedding band is made of.  When I finished, a woman came up to me and announced, “You have just destroyed my hope and my heaven.”

So the Spirit of God says to me, “for you are dead….”  And finally I am saying to the Lord, “isn’t there more to that verse?  Isn’t there another part of that verse?”  But, you see, the interesting thing is that He didn’t give me the other part of that verse.  He is saying to me, “You settle this part of the verse before that verse first, ‘If ye then be risen with Christ….’ ”  In other words, if you are going to be risen, you have to have died first.  I can’t be “risen with Christ”unless I have died with Christ.  Amen? 

How many Christians have not died?  We have the easy ride.  We have the blood of Jesus.  We have said, “Praise God!  I am delivered from the penalty of hell.  I do not have to worry about anything like that anymore!”  But we are getting into some deeper things here in Colossians.  What Paul is saying by the Holy Spirit is going to challenge us to go a little bit deeper. 

“For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.”

If you are going to be dead….  Let us bring it in the other way.  There is probably no way to have your life “hidden with Christ,” unless you are dead.  Do you follow what I am saying?  If you are not dead, your life is going to be wrapped up in yourself.  It is not going to be hidden with Christ.  Do you understand what I mean by “wrapped up”?  I mean “hidden”?  When you wrap something up, you hide it, don’t you?  Your life is going to be either hidden in yourself or your life can be hidden in Christ.  Perhaps the same thing can be said of the throne that is within you.  Is it going to be occupied by Christ, or it is going to be occupied by you?  If it is going to be occupied by you, this means in reality that it is occupied by Satan, since self-rule is rebellion against God our creator.

Now I said all this because this is bringing me to a glimpse of heaven.  When I lay on that table in the hospital emergency room I was in a place that the Bible calls, “the valley of the shadow of death.”  I believe I heard the spirit whisper that to me.  It wasn’t loud.  But, I was very well aware that I was in the place called the valley of the shadow of death.  And you remember what the word of God says (in Psalm 23:4),

“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.…”

And what is the rest of that verse?

“I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.”

In that place, I had no fear.  For a long time I had wondered what I would be like when I came to that place.  But there was no terror; there was no fear.  I was at such peace that I was actually getting to enjoy that place.  And yet, this nurse keeps calling loudly, “Mark!  Mark!”  And I open my eyes and I look at her, and I lock my pupils right on to her pupils, and I am thinking, “what is her problem?  Why does she keep doing this?”

Of course, she is watching my blood pressure go to about 40/35 (normal is about 120/80), and she is thinking that I am dead.  And she is just testing to see whether there is any life in me.  Okay, so I am not actually dead. 

Now, I became aware that there is a boundary, a veil, or a doorway somewhere near me.  Now, brethren, this boundary was not a natural boundary.  I could reach my hand here and I could reach my hand here—it wasn’t there in the natural.  Somehow, I had gone on into a spiritual place that I don’t ordinarily go into.  Somehow, I had gone into a heavenly place.  Now, brethren, I am not saying that I was in a very high heavenly place.  I am simply saying that I was in a “heavenly” place.

Now, let me go over to the Scriptures, and I am not going to trouble you any more with my personal testimony.  I will get you back to the Word of God here.  It takes me to the twelfth chapter of Revelation.  Because, brethren, I think we need to understand that if we are going to set our affection on something higher, if we are going to be seated in a higher place than we have been seated, then we need to have a little bit of understanding of what this is all about.  I will just get you part of some verses here. 

Chapter 12 of Revelation, and Verses 1 and 2. 

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:  And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered..” 

You know what that is all about.  There was a woman there.  The woman was a type of church.  You know this.  There were three churches (the woman, the child, and the moon) here in this great wonder in heaven.  Do you believe that these are three churches?  All three of them, by the way, were in heaven.  Even the lowest of the church (depicted here as the moon) was in heaven.  Let us come down here to Verse 3,

“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon….”

  What or who is this great red dragon?  He is the Devil!  Satan!  Is Satan found in heaven?  What is this all about?  Don’t you know that Jesus said?

“I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven.”  (Luke 10:18)? 

He fell from heaven.  So what is he doing in heaven?  Hmmm!  This is going to challenge our thinking a little bit, isn’t it? 

We come down here, beginning at verse 2, where it talks about a “man child” who is born. 

“And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered… and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

It says that, “her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”  I thought we were already in heaven.  Now, here he is caught up to the throne of God.  It must be a different heaven.  Could it be?  Amen? 

Now, we come down here to verse 7,

“And there was war in heaven….” 

My goodness!  All right, I guess we need to give a little illustration here of what this is all about.  We are talking about there being three levels:

THIRD HEAVEN The holy of holies. The kingdom of God. The incorruptible throne of God. Corresponds to the spirit of man with God. Satan cast out of here long ago. Man child caught up here in the spirit. SECOND HEAVEN Realm of the soul of man. Domain inhabited by higher order of unclean spirits, i.e. Satan, his angels, his principalities. The woman church gives birth to the man child in this spirit region. EARTH Lowest spirit (heavenly) realm. The arena of the flesh, humanity, natural, carnal. Lowest classes of demons prefer the habitation of humanity at this level. Satan and his cohorts to be cast down to this level.

Down here in the lower realm we have a thing called “earth.”  Now we know from the Word of God that it is possible to walk and dwell in the natural here on earth and still be in a heavenly place.  So this earth realm can also accommodate a spiritual or heavenly realm to those who are in Christ.  It would be the lowest realm of heaven. 

And here, probably in the atmosphere around the earth, we have another realm, a spirit realm; and this is a heaven.  Now this “Second heaven” that we are talking about here is where the “red dragon” is.  Can you see this?  This is where the devil is working his business.  This is where this “war in heaven” is taking place. 

So you see, there is some kind of heaven even in this first lower earthy realm.  And we know there is a heaven of God, where Satan is excluded, that is above this second realm where this warring with the Devil takes place.  Don’t expect me to give you a detail of everything that could possibly be understood about this.  Does anybody have a problem here, that there is more than one heaven?  We had some people challenge us recently.  I had to prove it.  By the way, in Genesis, the second chapter, it says that God created the “heavens” and the“earth.”  Now, he uses the singular reference to earth, if you are having any questions about whether there are other earths.  It is not recorded.  Just “earth.”  He created the earth and the heavens.  You remember, Paul said that he was “caught up to the third heaven”?[3]  It would seem that Paul was having a visit at least here in this higher realm here at the top in my illustration. 

Now I know that if you ask Brother Ces, his numbers are going to start somewhere way up here above mine and come down to this third heaven.  Or at least, I thought he indicated as much with me one time before.  I said, “Brother, I can’t understand it going that way.”  It would seem to me that what he is trying to say is that there could even be as much as three levels just to this higher heaven up in here that I am calling “the third heaven.”  For example, and in support of this the word says that God dwells in an unapproachable light.[4]  And we also believe that there is a realm reserved for the highest order of angels, a realm which Satan once occupied when he was “Heylel,” the archangel.   (It is recorded in Isaiah 14:12 that Heylel is the literal Hebrew name that Satan had before he became Satan.)  Could it be that there are also different levels of heaven within these lower levels of heaven?  Well, I am not going to go into that.  Suffice it to say that we have at least these three here. 

Now man is also made in the image of God, is he not?  How many parts of man are there?  Three.  All right.  What is the part of man that you see when you look at me right now?  You see my body.  So, therefore, what is this flesh made out of?  It is made out of the dust of the earth, isn’t it?  So when you look at me, you look at this earthy realm don’t you?  Okay?  You look at the realm that I was born in.  The realm that, without the spirit of God, I would remain in. 

Now, God made man of the dust of the earth.  When we get into the second chapter of Genesis, he begins to give more detail about what God did for man.  What does it say?  It says that He “breathed…the breath of life” into him and He made him “a living soul.”[5] 

Now, the Hebrew word for “breath” is “neshawmaw”;also“Ruwach.”  But the Greek word for that, which is carried over into the New Testament, is “pneuma.”  It is the same meaning, the same kind of word.  Let me just give you a little lesson in anatomy and physiology here.  If something punctures the outer layer of your rib cage and lets out the negative pressure that is in the space that surrounds your lungs, what happens is that they say you had a “pneumothorax” (“pneuma” (air) and “thorax” (your chest cavity).  Okay, it means that the air got let out.  You have to have a negative pressure (a slight vacuum, so to speak) around your lungs.  If a higher positive pressure of air gets in there, your lungs won’t operate.  It has to have a slight negative pressure.  Your breathing then is that when your diaphragm contracts, air comes into your lungs.  When it relaxes, that negative pressure there does its thing also.  God has made it very carefully. 

Now, this same word “pneuma,” in the New Testament, is also translated as “spirit.”  So we see that when God breathes His air into us, it is not natural air, is it?  What God did to Adam is that He breathed His Spirit into Adam.  That is why when man dies, his spirit is going to go back to God.[6]

Okay, now where are we?  We are talking about how man is made in the image of God.  Now, let us get it settled right here.  Your dog does not have the spirit of God.  I don’t care how much you love “Poochy” or whatever his name is, he does not have the spirit of God.  Man alone was made in the image of God.[7]  Only man has breathed into him the spirit of God.  Your cow doesn’t have it, your sheep doesn’t have it and your chicken doesn’t have it.  Amen?  When they die, they are done.  That’s it!  It’s over!  Kaput!  No more life!  No animal heaven, and animal rights, and all that.  when they are done, they are done. 

That is why man is the crown of God’s creation.  And you know that there is a rebellion going on in the earth today that is saying that the rights of animals on this earth supersede the rights of man.  Not true!  This is not true!  Yes, I like to see all kinds of varieties of birds, and spotted owls and that type of thing too.  I like them, you know, but come on?  I am not going to give up my life for theirs!  Amen?  I am not going to buy a doctrine that will kill unborn human babies and save the whales.  I am not going to do it!   Right?  We need to get our mind into the proper order of what God said is the order of things in this world.  Man was made to have dominion over God’s earthly creation.  Hallelujah!  But neither do we need to have an attitude of let’s go and destroy everything in God’s order either. 

So I have “flesh.”  I cannot do anything about it.  It’s here.  You look at me, and you see my flesh.  That is the way it is.  However, dwelling within this tabernacle of flesh is also a “soul.”  By the way, your dog has some kind of a soul—a very simple, very low frequency type of thing.  He recognizes your voice and he chooses to come or not to come, or whatever.  That is the way they are.  They have a simple little soul.  A cow has a simple soul: “I am hungry.  There is grass over here.  I will go over here and I will eat grass.”  She is somehow aware that she is a grass eater.  Okay?  And that is the limit of it.  Okay?  The “soul” is kind of like this second level here. 

Now God has also put within us a thing called “spirit.”  And what is the purpose of the spirit of man?  As near as I can tell, it has only one purpose, and that is to hear the voice of God, and to respond in like manner to the voice of God.  Amen?  If I have not fulfilled that purpose, I have wasted my life. 

Now, a man who is a sinner, when he dies his flesh goes into the earth and it joins back with earth.  His soul, however, is in a spiritual realm.  His soul has a spiritual character to it.  That soul is going to live forever.  And it is either going to go to an even lower realm (i.e. hell) or it is going to go to a higher realm, which is the dwelling place of God.  The spirit of the sinner will simply return to God,[8] but he will not follow it because he did not use it to communicate with God; it remained quiescent within him. 

And so it says here in Revelation 12, “And there was war in heaven….”  Now brethren, where do you expect this war is going to take place?  And how is this war going to affect us?  It begins in our soul, our minds.  So, we are talking about a realm of the soul aren’t we?  Can we not expect… should we be surprised at the warfare that is going against our soul?  You see, this second realm of heaven here, it is accessible by the devil and demons.  There is warfare here in this realm of heaven, and it says here in Verse 3,

“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon….”

  Now, it goes on also to describe this great red dragon’s organization or organizations—his religious organizations in which he tries to seduce our soul.  He tries to deceive us, he tries to do every manner of evil against us, in this soul realm. 

The realm of temptation comes basically to our soul.  You say, “Well no, it comes against my flesh.”  No, it has to come through your soul before it can get to your flesh.  You tell me if you can find an exception to this, but every sin of the flesh that I can think of comes to the imagination of my soul first.  If a man is going to go out and get to drinking, you know what?  He is thinking about that before he does it.  He is imagining beforehand what it is going to taste like to get that “Bud Light” into his hand.  He imagines it and his taste buds are now beginning to respond.  Okay?  His flesh is beginning to get himself ready for that thing. 

What would be another example?  Yes, a man who is lusting.  All right, his soul is setting up an image of the thing that he wants to satisfy himself with.  He sees a picture.  In other words, he first has some sort of idolatry that rises up in his mind.  Let me tell you something, brethren, do you know how to win the war of these things?  You have to recognize it when it first comes into your mind and it is at that point that you can defeat it.  But if you wait until you are down in the tavern and you have had two or three—Come on, it is a little late at that point!  I just give that as an example.  All right?  In the same way, you can deal with “bitterness.”  You can deal with “anger.”  You can deal with “hostility.”  Brethren, you can deal with every one of them.  Come on! 

Let us take anger and murder for instance.  God saw Cain.  He saw the condition of his countenance; the countenance on his face immediately reflected the thinking that was going on in his mind.[9]  How many of you know that you can sometimes see the thoughts going across people’s minds?  You know what?  If you are sensitive, you can.  If you want to remain earthy, you will probably never notice.  Amen? 

Oh, I tell you brethren, where are the people that see?  Oh, doesn’t the kingdom of God long for people that want to see?  Sometimes we just want to close our eyes and we do not want to see.  You know, sometimes the things that we see trouble us.  But, you know what?   We are going to have to deal with it.  Hallelujah! 

You know, one of the things I appreciate about Janet is that, she saw.  She could see, and there were things that she saw that troubled her.  She had a hard time sometimes overcoming some of the things that she saw.  But I believe, when she came to the last, that she had overcome the things that she was seeing that she did not know how to deal with.  She was giving them to the Lord. 

“Offense.”  There were things that came against her soul that offended her.  Yes, she was human.  She had flesh on her.  And I remember those last few weeks, from Florida on, and maybe even before we went to Florida.  She said to me, “Oh, Mark, the things that have offended me, I am laying them aside.  I am not going to take them on anymore.  No more will they be laid on me.  No more will I receive them!  No more will I accept them again!  Other people’s offense—No!  They are not mine anymore!  I am rejecting them!”

You see, what was happening is that these things had come into the thought processes of the mind and of the soul, to where the emotions would kick in and cause a firestorm; and some kind of a war, a battle, would begin to take place.  As soon as you see these things come in, nip them in the bud right there and say, “No!  I am not going down that path!”

Brethren, young men, you can deal with lust in the same manner!  Do you know why we struggle with lust?  It is because we don’t nip it in the bud the minute the picture rises up in our mind, and win the war in that realm of heaven. 

All kinds of deceptions!  “Well, you don’t know about this.  You don’t know about…”  Come on!  nip it now!  You know where it is going.  Hallelujah!  We can live in victory above these things.  You can live above bitterness, anger, resentment—no matter what has been done to you!  No matter what kind of filthy, vile thing has been perpetrated against us.  When the thought comes, we can nip it right there. 

What about unforgiveness!  “I cannot forgive that beast!”  Come on?  Are you going to drag that unforgiveness down to your grave with you?  “No!  I am not!”  You see, with those kind of things, we are not going to be able to enter into the realm of God’s heaven.  Hallelujah!  We are going to have to cast them off if we are to be among the overcoming sons of God! 

I could take you back to those three churches in Revelation 12 (the woman church; the man child church; the old order moon church) and talk to you about the differences that there are in people.  Come on?  There is a war going on right now in the church.  There is a battle going on.  There is travail going on.  Can I call travail a “war”?  The woman is travailing, even now. 

“For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.”[10]

“Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail.”[11] 

What do you think the troubles in our fellowships are all about?  Zion is travailing!  Why are some abandoning the ship and leaving?  Zion is travailing!  Amen!  What is going to be left to come forth?  It is going to be the man child!  Hallelujah!  I am going to stay with the womb of the woman until the time of birth comes.  Amen!  And when the coming to birth is there, the Lord says He will not bring to birth and then not bring forth.[12] 

So we are talking about bringing forth.  Yes, there is trouble, there is tribulation.  The woman does not enjoy that period of labor that she is going through.  The woman church is baffled at what is going on.  “Why this conflict?”  “What is this thing going on within me?”  And she is desirous of being rid of it.  She wants it over with!  Hallelujah! 

It is going on in heaven, brethren, but it is going on to where I can sense that it is going on.  I am aware of this thing going on.  Amen!  Does it trouble me?  Yes, it troubles me!  When I see brethren say, “I do not want to be here anymore,” it breaks my heart.  And I am saying, “my God, how many times can my heart be broken over this thing?”  “Why didn’t he stay?”  “Why didn’t she stay?” It almost breaks my heart as much as Janet’s leaving me.  But, I can explain that.  I can say that that was God’s sovereign will, and that is something I can get along with.  The other, I am still not sure I can get by with it.  I can’t understand it!  I cannot comprehend why a man would want to hang around in this lower earthy realm!  I cannot understand why a man would want to hang around in this moon church realm.

Well, let’s get over to the war (that is going on in heaven).  Revelation 12:7,

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon…”

Where did these warring angels come from?  Where did Michael come from?  He must have come from this higher third heaven realm.  We have not been used to considering Michael, have we?  We have been fighting the battle.  But I will tell you what; I like the idea that Michael is going to show up.  He showed up back in the days of Daniel, didn’t he?[13]  Wasn’t it Gabriel the archangel that came at the first; and then he needed help from Michael?  Gabriel couldn’t get through that second heaven.  He was pounding, hammering that devil, but the devil was withholding, withstanding him.  Saying, “no!  You are not getting through!”  For twenty-one days, Daniel waited on the Lord in the lower realm.[14]  Twenty-one days!  My goodness, we can’t wait one hour, can we, to get the answer from the Lord?  Twenty-one days he waited.  Come on?  Do we wait like Daniel?  Are we good for twenty-one days?  Daniel was aware that God had a word for him; that something was coming through the second heavenly realm.  All he had to do was stay in his place.  God is faithful to deliver the word. 

You know something, brethren?  God knows how to get through to you.  You say, “but I do not know how to hear.”  Let me tell you something, He knows how to make you hear.  He put that spirit within you.  He knows how to activate it.  He knows how to get you to hear it.  He knows how to quicken your soul that your soul will hear that spirit of God!  Amen!  But do you want to hear the voice of the Spirit of God in your spirit?  I tell you, the first time I heard, I did not think I knew how to hear from God either.  I remember the first time and it was a time when I was in trouble.  Brethren, sometimes it is good that we be in trouble.  Do I look for trouble?  Oh my!  No, I do not look for trouble.  I seek to avoid trouble with every opportunity I have!  But when trouble lands on top of me, what am I going to do with it? 

I did not ask to have a heart attack.  I believed that I would probably live forever.  No, intellectually I didn’t believe that, but in the way I conducted my life, I probably acted like I would.  I believed that I was perfectly healthy, that there was no problem within me.  But one day I find myself on my hands and knees, and I am saying, “my God, I don’t want to waste this opportunity.  I don’t want to miss whatever it is that you are going to say!”  You know, I think if we submit ourselves to the Lord, we are going to make our hearing a whole lot easier. 

But the first time I heard the voice of the Lord, I was down on my face on the floor.  It was way back when I was about thirty-five years old.  And I am saying, “my God, I am not getting off this floor until I hear the voice of my Father, my Lord and Savior.”  Amen! 

I had heard the word of a prophet—a word that he had given to me.  And I said, “my God, this is my life!  I am a son!  I have a right to hear directly from you.  I am not going to have to run to a prophet every time I need to hear your voice.  I want to hear from you directly!”

And I went on and I told Him how hard of hearing I was.  Wow!  Did He get through to me!  Do you know what it was like?  He put a trumpet right here on my rib cage and He blasted the words through me.  Do you know, what He said?  You are curious now, right?  He said, “will you bear with me a little while longer?”

He says this to me and how do I answer Him?  Are you going to say, “no”?  What good is it going to do if I say, “no”?  Whatever He asks, you have to say, “Yes.” 

Isn’t it interesting that He was blaming Himself for taking so long with me?  He was saying basically, “It is me that is taking the time on this thing.  That is why you are so upset.  Can you put up with me while I do what I am going to do?  And while I take my time?”  But I had wanted it over with.  My thinking was, “I have been at this long enough.  Let us get on with it.”  And He said, “will you bear with me?”  I said, “yes.” 

So then my mind was thinking, “six more months and it will be over with!”  But I think it was something like six more years before I could finally say, “I think we are coming to the end of this.  This winter is just about over.”  These verses of Scripture came to me this morning.  It is from the Song of Solomon,

“For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;  The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (turtledove) is heard in our land[15]

That came to me this morning.  That is what the spirit of God is saying in the natural.  He makes natural seasons.  Amen?  And there are spiritual seasons.  Brethren, you know, He says that in due season you shall reap if you faint not.[16]  That means that in your heaven, in your realm of heaven, there are seasons.  You do not like what you have been going through, but do you know what?  It is not going to last forever.  You do not like to be in winter forever.  I tell you, we have had a horrible winter up there this year where I live.  I have personally had a horrible winter, both in the natural and in my soul.  Nothing has been to my liking this winter.  It started off bad with me having a heart attack and then going in and getting open-heart surgery.  Then in the middle of the winter, my wife was suddenly taken from me.  This has not been a good winter.  But, do you know what?  Winter has to release its grip!  Spring is going to come!  Amen?  The “voice of the turtledove” is going to be heard again in the land! 

I like the turtledove, don’t you?  The word of God uses the dove as a type of the Holy Spirit.  The voice that came from heaven (the spirit realm) at the time of Jesus’ baptism was seen in the form of a dove.  You know, my Audubon Society bird book tells me that the turtledove is very similar to the mourning dove.  We have mourning doves that are on our road.  They are beautiful little things, not at all aggressive.  In the morning you can hear them if the windows are open, and they make that gentle, mournful, little cooing sound.  Oh, it is so beautiful to hear their voice.  Even so, is it beautiful to hear the still small voice of God’s spirit. 

Well, there is war in heaven.  Yes, there is war in heaven.  Michael is coming down, and let us look at it again here in Revelation 12, Verse 8,

“…and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.”

What is happening here?  This second level higher spiritual atmosphere (the second heaven) that surrounds the earth is the realm where the devils have been working.   Satan is the “prince of the power of the air.”[17]  This is his realm.  This is his dominion.  He has been given this spiritual place to do his business. 

By the way, all these realms are on different frequencies.  There are different frequencies.  There is a low frequency realm here on this lower spiritual place (“earth”) where we dwell most of the time (see previous illustration), and a higher frequency realm here at the second level, referred to here in Revelation 12.

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven (the higher frequency second level of heaven).  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth (the low frequency realm where we live most of the time), and his angels were cast out with him.

There is an even higher frequency realm here from which Michael and God’s warring angels have come down from.  These are spiritual frequencies.  It is like when you turn your radio on.  If you go down along to the lower end where it is about 550 or so—that is a low frequency; and when you get that thing up to 1600 or so on the dial—that is a higher frequency.  Now, you get into television and that is an even higher frequency.  You have VHF and UHF.  That means “very high frequency” and “Ultra high frequency.”  I do not understand all the electronics of that; all I need to know is that there are different frequencies. 

But, you know, brethren, the whole eighth chapter of Romans is dealing with “flesh” versus “spirit.”  It says there (in Verse 6),

“For to be carnally minded is death….”

Amen?  Then, Verses 7-8,

“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

 Therefore, it is impossible to please God if we are carnally minded. 

Now, as we come to the end of this age, there is a war going on.  The devil and his entire cohort are cast down.  Where?  To earth!  We read that there was no more place found in this second realm.  They have to go lower into the flesh, the carnal, the earthy realm.  Now, what effect do you think that is going to have on us?  Will it be hell on earth?  Or will it be deliverance?  Deliverance will be the end result for the sons of God (for those who are “led by the Spirit of God”[18]).  But, before we cry out for deliverance, what can we expect to experience?  War and tribulation, in a more carnal level than you have ever felt before.  Brethren, if you have not harnessed this thing called “flesh” (and I speak of the soulish arena as well), there is something coming to the flesh that you just cannot imagine!  Do you hear what I am saying? 

I am just trying to warn you.  We had better get it settled!  Right here in our soul!  In the practical sense, devils prefer “going to and fro”and“walking up and down”in the earth.[19]  This is true especially concerning the higher realm of devils.  They prefer the freedom of coming and going in the “air.”  (Shall we use the term “air”?)  By the way, if you go through the Bible and look up every reference to the word “heaven,” you will find that some of the references to heaven refer to this natural air that we breathe.  Birds fly in the heavens.  There is a natural reference of heavens in that realm.  Devils, higher order devils, prefer that space, and do not wish to be confined to the flesh of man.  Lower realm demons (we are referring to disembodied spirits) prefer earthy places.  They prefer to inhabit people.

Now, these higher realm devils (Satan, the dragon and his angels—this type), when they are cast out of this heaven, where are they going to go?  Do you expect that they are going to be crawling around out in your fields?  No, no, no!  They are going to be taking up inhabitance in people.  That means that the prince of devils (the red dragon himself) is going to find a candidate, perhaps a vile dictator type of candidate.  But it is more probable that he will find as his most promising candidate, an ex-president or a pope or something like that—somebody who has a lot of political clout and influence.  Somebody through whom he believes he can exert his dominion throughout the entire world. 

What is the result of all this?  Can I go over a little more on the page here in Revelation 12?  It says in Verse 9,

“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” 

These are these higher realm devils.  I will use the term “devils.”  Verse 10,

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven…”

Boy!  Here is heaven again.  I think this loud voice came from this highest (the third level) heaven.  You see, this was an announcement from God’s heaven.  The second heaven realm here has just been cleaned out.  You see, back in Luke 10 (Verse 18), Jesus said,

“I beheld… Satan fall from heaven.”

There He saw Satan fall from one of the higher realms of this third heaven.  there He saw Satan being cast down to the second heaven realm.  And now, here in Revelation 12, this second level of heaven is now being cleaned out, down to the “earth” (carnal) level.  Verse 9 again,

“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

Then he says in Verse 10,

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven…”

This is a voice coming from the higher “throne of God” heaven.

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:”

Okay, it says, “Now is come….”  Very soon, brethren, we are going to face this time called “now.”  “Now” is almost upon us.  You see, brethren, I do not need to convince you of the times and seasons.  You see the shaking of the earth.  You see the shaking of the heavens.  You hear the rumblings of war.  You realize that there is a third world war that is coming.  Whether this one be a brief conflict and is over quickly and is to be followed by something else, I don’t know.  You know, the longer an open conflict is held off, the more I am thinking that it could be building up for the big one.  Or a small one could be the fuse that starts the biggie.  I am not trying to scare you.  This is just reality.  

But it says, “Now is come salvation….”  So, what do you believe about salvation?  Come on?  What does the “moon church” teach about salvation?  Brethren, it teaches,

“Come on up here.  Sign the little card; we will take you through a prayer—it is all settled now.  You are saved now, and that is all the salvation you are ever going to need.” 

Now, if you meant that decision, it was a very good decision.  But what it meant is that you only stepped into the door.  You see, there are three places in the house of God too: the outer court, the holy place, and the holy of holies.  You wanted to be delivered from the penalty of hell, and you stepped into the door of the “outer court” when you made that decision.  But, you know what?  Your salvation isn’t finished.  You have to finish your way through that outer court.  You have to come into the “holy place”(the court of Pentecost) to the place where you are now “in Christ.”  Not just “Christ in me,”[20] but “me in Christ.”[21]  Okay?  When I am “in Christ,” Christ goes where He wants and then I go along.  When it is just “Christ is in me,” I try to take Him to places He wouldn’t want to go.  If I keep doing that, I risk the problem that He does not want to be in me anymore.  You understand what I am saying?  But our salvation is still not finished until we pass through the “veil”(which represents our flesh[22]) and we come to where we will dwell in the “holy of holies.”  This“secret place of the most High”[23] will have to be the place that the manchild (the sons of God) company will dwell and carry on the battle.  The battle against darkness, during the coming “hell on earth” season (when “the pestilence that walketh in darkness…”and “the destruction that wasteth at noonday…” etc.”is having its day[24]).  This man child company will come up to a higher spiritual realm of authority, being “caught up unto God, and to His throne.”[25] 

Now this does not at all describe the doctrine that has been taught in the church that there will be a physical “rapture.”  But as the devil is driven down into our comfortable earth realm, we are going to have to heed the pressure to come up to a higher heavenly place in order to survive and carry out the battle.

Romans 13:11,

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”  

“when we believed…” is when we first believed, which means when I stepped through the door (or the gate, or whatever you want to call it).  When I first came in, I first believed.  I realized that I needed the blood. 

“Now is your salvation nearer than when you firstbelieved.” 

But let us read 1 Peter 1:3-5, where the Scripture says that there is a salvation yet to be revealed at the end time. 

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” 

So as long as I have enemies that are fighting me and warring against me, my salvation isn’t finished.  My salvation is not finished until every one of my enemies is put underneath the foot.  Amen?  Until they are trodden underfoot and they are no longer able to rise up against me.  Then is my salvation finished. 

Now when I cross the barrier from mortal to immortal, as far as I am concerned, then that is the end of my salvation.  Except that, as a “witness,” I have to probably observe a few more things.[26]  But, as to this flesh, there will then be nothing more that I will be able to overcome.  Does it not behoove us then to overcome all that we can now?  Why do you want to wait to be a witness, and watch me or someone else overcome something, when you could be doing it right here and now in the flesh and get the reward for doing it in the flesh?  Amen?  Doesn’t that give you a little incentive? 

So, going back to the verses in Revelation 12, it says,

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation….” 

So you see, what is the finality of salvation?  The finality of salvation is when these devils get driven down into the earthy, carnal realm, where they are attacking me such as they never have before, and yet now is found no place in me either.  Hallelujah!  Why?  Because I want to be among the man-child that was born of that woman who has now been “caught up untoGod, and to His throne.”  Verses 2, 4-5,

“And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered… and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

 Amen.  And what devil is going to attack the throne of God?  If I am going to be in that heavenly place (at the throne), will they be able to touch me? 

Are we getting it, brethren?  Please tell me?  Tell me if you are getting this or if you are not getting it?  You know what delights me so?  It is that the brethren are getting this.  We are getting this.  We are finally understanding what God is trying to say to us in this.  This belongs to our time.  Amen? 

“Now is come salvation, and strength (‘dunamis’ in the Greek), and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down….” 

Now, the literal translation of that word “strength” is “power!”  “Power!” 

There is another word here.  The next word given here is the word “kingdom.”  It says, “and the kingdom of our God….”  I am going to skip over it first and then I’ll come back to “kingdom.” 

Then it says, “…and the power of His Christ...” and that word “power” here should literally be translated as “authority.”  So we have both.  We have both “power” and “authority.”  How many of you have all the power and authority that you can possibly use in the kingdom of God?  Where you are operating in it, and you are raising the dead, you are healing the sick and casting out demons?  I don’t believe many of us are. 

“Now is come… power.…”

Do you know the difference between power and authority?  A military tank is rolling directly towards you with its turret pointed at you.  The one running this tank has a lot of “power’ doesn’t he?  All that guy inside has to do is hit that little button and all that power is going to come rolling right straight at me, and obliterate me.  Now, the officer who commands this tank and all the lower ranking guys in the tank, he has “authority.”  He has the power to step out in front of that tank and hold his hand up, and that guy in that tank had better well stop that tank and anything else that was going on in that tank.  He has “authority.”  He is not coming against that tank with a bigger tank, he is stopping it because that man in that tank recognizes the authority of his superior officer.  And he has been taught to yield to that authority. 

You know, demons understand the rank and file of authority.  They are all under dominion of others higher.  And they also recognize the authority of God.  Do you understand then what God is giving to us, when this hell breaks out on earth?  Yes, I am talking about “hell” breaking out on “earth”!  No longer confined to that other spiritual zone.

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.  Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!  for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

Well, you may say, “it is not going to happen to us.  We do not have to worry about that; we won’t be here.  We will have been raptured.”  Come on?  Then who is this written for?  Is this just written for the sinners and a few renegade Jews?  This is written for saints!  This is the word for us!  Because we are going to need it!  Come on, do not argue against this and say, “I do not believe it!”

Now let us go back and look at the rest of Verse 10,

“Now is come… the kingdom of our God….”

What are we preaching?  Are we not preaching the kingdom of God?  What do you think is going to be able to resist this “hell on earth”?  Do you think that some organization is going to be able to raise up themselves and stir themselves up?  Do you think that some great religious world system is going to be able to rise up and stop the activity of this devil, that has now come with his final acts of wrath and anger to bring destruction anywhere he can possibly break it out?  Hell on earth!  Do you think that some puny little organization can rise up against this?  Nothing but the army of God can stop this thing, and this is what we are talking about when we say, “Now is come…the kingdom….” 

You may say,

“Well, I am in the kingdom now.” 

Yes, but you know what?  You are not in the fullness of the kingdom. 

“I am saved now.” 

Yes, but I am not in the fullness of my salvation. 

“I have got power now!  Yea, we have the power!” 

Amen!  But I do not have all the power that I need. 

“I have authority in the name of Jesus!”

But, do you know what?  Somehow I have not been able to exercise all that authority that I would like to exercise.  Why?  Because there is something still lacking!  I may believe I am in the house of God or the body of Christ, but am I dwelling “in the secret place of the most high”?  Am I ready to pass through the veil of this flesh and dwell continually in the higher sphere of the spirit?

And God knows it!  He has ordained it that way.  And He has ordained a time when He is going to make it full and complete.  All things full and complete!  In God!  In the proper time and order of God! 

Oh, it goes on here in Revelation 12, and it says in Verse 11,

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

Literally that says,

“and they loved not their (souls) unto death.” 

Now I am wondering, what does the Lord mean when He says to me, “For you are dead”?  Here I am, alive, lying on that emergency room table, and I am thinking about this word, “For you are dead.”  “For you are dead.”  About eight nurses and doctors are talking and calling orders above me, “give him this!”  “Give him that!”  “Oh, he’s going down, hit him with another dose!”  And you know, I am just laying there in peace, in front of the veil; and Janet comes in and lays hands on me, “In the name of Jesus, Raise him up!”  I wasn’t really impressed.  I thought, “she wants me up, real bad!”  You know? 

Finally, I am thinking to myself, “well, I am still not physically dead.  It must be that I am going to have to live?  I am going to have to cooperate somehow in this living process.”  Then I began to pray.  I still have my eyes shut.  The nurse hasn’t yelled my name for a while.  My eyes are still shut, and I began to pray and I say, “In the name of Jesus, I ask that life come back into this flesh.  I ask that you preserve my life, oh Lord.  I call upon you, in the authority of the name of Jesus!  I call upon the blood of the Lamb.  Hallelujah!”

And I hear that nurse saying, “yes, I agree!”  “Yes, I agree!” I went and I found her later.  I said, “do you remember me?” I had to hunt for her.  I had to come on a certain day, as it was only a certain day when she was working.  I called two or three times and found out that her name was “Angie.”  “Is Angie working today?” “No, Angie is off today.”  I called a few days later.  “When is Angie working again?” 

Okay, I found out when she was working and went down.  “Do you remember me?”   She looks at me and she says, “oh yes, I remember.”  She is an older lady like someone my age, you know.  And I said, “you were worried about me, weren’t you?”  She said, “Oh yes, we thought we were losing you.”  I said, “Do you remember my praying?” She said, “yes, I remember.”  I said, “So, what is your faith.”  She said, “oh, I am catholic.”  And I thought to myself, “You know, probably the only prayer that that woman ever prayed or heard before was counting rosary beads, and ‘our father’s’ and this type of thing.”  But she heard a man lying on that table calling for his life in the name of Jesus and by the blood of the Lamb, and she was saying, “I agree!”  “I agree!”  “I agree!”  That is all I heard her say: “I agree!”  I said, “do you remember that?” She said, “yes, I remember that.” 

And when this thing first happened to me, I did not want to go to Saint Something Catholic hospital.  I tried to avoid it.  But there was to be no life at the other hospital, so I had no choice. 

Well, let me just finish with a word here.  It says here in Verse 11,

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony…”

It says, “And they overcame him….”  God has given us the key to overcome.  You have the blood, you have the “life” of the blood.  It is not sufficient just to say, “I have the blood.”  My mouth has to speak that which I believe.  My mouth is going to speak those words.  When my mouth began to speak, the thing began to change and turn.  The doctor had already walked out from that room.  He found Janet over in another room.  I am talking about the cardiologist, not just some generalist.  The cardiologist—the guy who knows hearts upside down and inside out.  He walked out and he said to Janet, “I don’t think we are going to be able to save him.  I think we are going to lose him.” 

I asked him the other day, I said, “Why did you say that?”  He went through all kinds of medical explanations about the heart and the way it is and where it was, and the blood pressure, and all this and that.  Then he says to me, basically, “You know, the kind of heart attack that you had, if you can make it through a couple of hours, you’re okay.”  He said, “the drug that I gave you, it is either going to kill you or it is going to cure you.”  (In other words, “Don’t try this at home.”) 

I said, “so, I made it.”  He says, “yes.”  He told me, “It is virtually impossible for you to have another heart attack now; at least, now.”  He said, “we put in so much plumbing, you do not need to worry about it.  However, I still want you to keep your cholesterol down….”  And so on, you know?   

All right.  I am talking about the kingdom.  I am talking about,

“and they loved not their souls unto death.” 

This thing of loving not our souls unto death, this is frightening, isn’t it?  I understand, brethren.  If you are in your twenties, if you are in your thirties: I understand how frightening this thing is.  The thought of laying down your life—it is an awesome thing!  You know, it bothered Janet for years.  She liked the word up until this part, “But what is this business about following the Lamb and, you know, ‘laying down your life’?  I don’t like that part.  I don’t think that I want to go that far.   Maybe I can stay with the woman church, you know.  Maybe I can just hide in the wilderness, you know.  Would that be all right?  We don’t have to go all that way, do we?”

Now, I am just being honest with you.  She was a woman.  That idea bothered her.  But do you know what?  Again, in that last month, when this thing of death came right up in my face, she looked at me, and she said, “you know, Mark, I am not afraid of that anymore.”  She said, “I will go wherever my Lord wants me to go.” 

I am so glad she settled that issue.  You know what?  I think if she settled it, she gets a martyr’s reward.  If you are willing to go and God takes you out before, the point is that your heart was set on it.  So, I can think what I want, can’t I?  What He thinks is what is going to matter. 

No—she settled the issues!  She told those brethren that were in the room, minutes before she died, she said, “I am walking above the trees, now.”  Remember, in the time of Karen and Brian’s wedding, afterwards at the meeting she shared about the dream that she had?  She told them, “I am walking above the trees, and I am going to stay above the trees.”   Let me share with you her exact words that she spoke May 5, 2002 in Cedarville, Illinois:

Hallelujah.  You know, I am blessed because we have heard this word.  We have heard this word for years.  The other day I went out for a walk and I said to the Lord,

“I am not where I ought to be.  I am not where I ought to be.  You know, I have situations around me and they are weighing me down.  They have pressed me down.”

I began to pray to the Lord, and you know what?  I lost sight of my problems and I got a glimpse of the light and the glory of the Lord.  I began to pray differently, you know, and it was like David.  I went in with my problems, I went in with my situations, and I began to praise the Lord and to glorify the Lord.  I came home and I had such strength and power.  So I went to bed and the Lord gave me a dream, and I believe it is for the church in this hour.

In the dream I was walking up by the treetops; I was walking way up by the treetops.  All the problems and situations were down on the earth and I began to realize that I was walking above it.  It was glorious!  It was glorious!  I could see the situations, I could see the problems, but do you know what?  They weren’t touching me. 

I said to the Lord, “Lord, what is this?  This is glorious!”  He said, “My sons are rising up.  My sons are beginning to walk in the Spirit.”  He said, “It is not going to touch you.  You will see it, but it is not going to touch you.  It is not going to come nigh you.”  I said to the Lord, “Lord this is glorious.” 

It is not that now you do not have situations that you have to pray to the Lord about and give to the Lord.  I still had to do that.  I still had to ask the Lord.  Then all of a sudden, the Lord showed me that God’s people are being pressed down.  They are being pressed down and discouraged.  But there is a place in God, if you believe God, that He wants you to walk.  All of a sudden the situations began to come up to where I was.  I said to the Lord, “What now?” He said, “I am going to bring you up higher.”  I thought, “Oh God!”

We have not, because we have asked not.[27]  We have asked not.  You know there is a way to pray; there is a way to talk to the Lord.  I was praying for a minister who lives in our area.  I have known him from years ago.  He is in his fifties.  He is dying of cancer.  He wants God to heal him.  He wants a miracle from God.  But I went to the Lord and I said,

“Lord if this is his appointed time, I am not going to touch it.  I am not going to ask you.  I have no business touching this.  If you are not going to heal him, if you are not going to give him a miracle, then Lord, give him the spirit of anticipation that he is going to see you, that He is going to be with you!  And remove the pain.” 

By the time I got home, after my walk, you know what I realized?  All I have to do is ask.  “God, I don’t know that I am under the shadow of the almighty.  I have heard the word, but Lord that is where I want to be!  You can do whatever you have to do in me to bring me to that place, because Lord, that is my heart’s desire.  I want to be there.  I want to see you.  I want to be with you.” 

But, you know, there is a place you can walk, if you believe God.  You know what?  You have faith.  He has given you faith.  But you have to believe this word.  I have discovered it has nothing to do with me.  It has nothing to do with me, except, “God, I believe you.  I believe Your word.  I believe that you will do it because I want you to do it.”  When I got home, it was like I saw the Lord smile, because He was pleased that I had asked.

Is it really that simple?  Is it really that simple?  But you know, we need to believe this word.  We need to hang on to this word.  But you know what?  He has a place for us to walk.  It is not in the earth anymore.  I am sorry, it is not in the earth.  It is in the high place, where none of this is going to touch you.  He told me one more thing.  He said,

“These are not problems.  These are not circumstances.  These are not problems, these are opportunities for Me to show you My power, My grace, My healing, My deliverance!” 

And you know what?  I came out seeing it differently.  “My God, I have all kinds of opportunities!” I have a confidence in God.  They are opportunities for Him to reveal Himself to me.  Hallelujah!  Church, we have no business down here on the earth anymore!  We are sons of God!  We need to rise up and believe this Word, and take our situations to the Lord, that they might be opportunities for God to bless us and minister to us.

The day she left this earth for the heavenly realm, she said to me, “I am not satisfied to just be in the Holy Place.”  She said, “I am going through the veil and I am going into the Most Holy Place!”  She expected to take her body through that veil, but it was not to be at this time!  Brethren, I believe there is coming a time, right here in this time of which this word speaks, when our bodies are going to go through that veil.  And we are going to go into the holy of holies.  This was a description of life in the holy of holies.  That is what this is.  When you have come to the place of overcoming.  When there is a body of people, when there are sons of God, a corporate people, that have come into this place.  Brethren, they will have passed through the veil. 

Now, in that hospital, I was standing (or literally, lying) before the veil.  I could almost reach out and touch that veil.  Yes, I wanted to go through.  And I tell you what, after Janet went through, did I ever want to go through!  For a while, didn’t I wish I had gone through!  

But not anymore!  No, not like that!  I know that I have been ordained to stay here; I am going to go on with my life.  I am not going to long to go through until that time comes.  But, I tell you what, brethren, I have no fear of going through.  I went up to the door!  I went up to the veil!  Amen?  There is absolutely no fear!  No devil is ever going to threaten me with physical death!  hallelujah!

Well, you know… Yes, preserving my life has come back into me, but not to the extent that I will ever compromise.  Yes, I still eat three meals a day.  I still sleep.  I am still preserving what I have, because my feet are still down here.  I still have to do that.  And I am going to do it joyfully. 

The thought of going out alone was a terrifying and horrible thought to me!  I could not imagine how I could ever do that.  But here I am.  God said that He was going to give me grace.  I found, however, that it was not grace that I was wanting.  I did not want grace.  I wanted my former way of life back with my wife!  But I am going to receive grace, am I not?  And I can do nothing about the other.  I still do not know what grace is, except something that I will be a recipient of in time of need, and it is something that I do not deserve.  I still can’t measure it.  I can’t quantify it.  I can’t define it.

Okay, one last verse here in Revelations 12.  Verse 12,

 “Therefore rejoice ye heavens….” 

Come on, let’s go back?  Who is this book written for?  Is this book written for angels?  Is this book written for people that have already been raptured?  Why would they need a book?  Why would they need instructions?  The book is written for people—it is written for us!  People who live in the “now.”  It says, “Now is come….”  That is for people who live now. 

“Therefore rejoice ye heavens….”

It says, “ye heavens….”  That means that there is a people who have come into heavenly places.[28]  If you have come into this place, into a heavenly place, then you will be rejoicing!  You will be glad!  When you see hell breaking out on earth, you will know that you are in the place where you are “…under the shadow of the almighty.”[29]  You will know that you are in that place and you will rejoice! 

No, you will not rejoice to see the suffering of other people, but you will rejoice in the Lord, your God.  Because you will say, “The kingdom is coming to its fullness.  It has got to come.”  Amen? 

There is another place you do not want to be.  First it says,

“rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them….” 

That means that they will be “dwelling” in that place.  I will be dwelling in that place, but with my feet right here.  The heaven in me will be dwelling in that heaven and I will be rejoicing.  But then it says,

“Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!…”

You see, there are three places that are named here in this verse, aren’t there?  The “heavens,” the “earth,” and the “sea.”  There are always three.  Isn’t that something?  Always three!  Earth is what?  earth is the place where the Christian who is carnal is living.  But “the sea,” it is the world, isn’t it?[30]  The unregenerate masses.  Every time the wind blows, the sea moves also, doesn’t it?  Every trend, every movement, every style, every fashion… every wind (swoosh!)—the sea moves!  “Oh, let’s all have an anti…”   (Swoosh!)—the sea moves over here.  “Let’s all support the….”  (Swoosh!)—the sea moves over here.  You know?  And sometimes the sea moves against itself.  Waves of the sea—that is the world!  The unregenerate people of the world. 

But do you know what?  What He is saying here is that the Christians who are living in the carnal realm, they are going to be in just as much trouble in the natural, as the sea.  These are the same Christians that remain in the “outer court,” which Revelation 11:1-2 says is going to be destroyed by being  “tread under foot” by the nations of the world.  “Woe to you…” he says.  Verse 12,

“Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!  for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

Well, I have gone over my time.  Brethren, I hope that we have our eyes on the higher place.  I hope that our affections are being set.  I hope that our desires are established.  you know, if you have a desire for something, then you are going to be reaching for it.  If you desire the carnal things, if you desire the earthy things, if you desire to make a big killing in something here on the earth (whatever it is)—then that is what you are going to be reaching for.

Lord, I thank you for your goodness.  You have been a merciful God.  You have been longsuffering.  You manifest things that are in your nature to me, Lord.  Yes, things that I did not know.  I thought I knew, but I didn’t know. 

Lord I pray for this people here, a people that you have gathered together in one flock here, Lord.  Every one of them has a calling.  Some of them are having trouble, Lord.  Some of them are struggling with issues of earth, Lord.  It seems that earth has a stronghold in some of the realms of their lives, Lord.  Oh, God, I pray that they have heard the voice from heaven today, and that they are going to rise up and that they are going to cry out.  And they are going to say, “my God, my God!  do not leave me down here in this awful, muddy, filthy pit of human earthiness.  But let me rise up!  Be merciful to me, God.”

And my God, I think that we need to repent of some things….  Brethren, if you are in that place, just repent with God today: “Cleanse me Lord.”  “Cleanse me from that iniquity.”  “Cleanse me from my wandering, Lord.”   “Oh God, cleanse me.  I have not overcome completely and fully in some of these realms of my flesh.  Oh God, I want to!  I want to so badly….   And now, Lord, when that devil comes to me in my soul, and begins to move upon me again, I pray Lord, at that time I will call upon your name.  And I know that you will give me the grace to overcome and to win that thing….”

My God, I pray for this people.  In the precious name of Jesus, hear the prayers this day.  Amen.